ft-86 engine confirmation

[toyofan]

has toyota confirmed the naturally aspirated 4cyl engine? also, when if at all could we be seeing a turbo version (possible labeled TRD)?

[ej25ti]

yes an NA version is confirmed, turbo model is still up in the air, but likely IMO
throw up some pics of the subie killer, looks good from the small pic that i can see lol

[toyofan]

yes an NA version is confirmed, turbo model is still up in the air, but likely IMO
throw up some pics of the subie killer, looks good from the small pic that i can see lol

ok, can do... lol

[G4BROKE]

Toyota really ought to just make the turbo option a diesel (actually that could be Subaru), so the NA would be the 'nice' and the turbo diesel (or ECO e100) the 'insane' - both good gas mileage too. lol

Ok, back on topic.

[toyofan]

why would you want a diesel engine for the ft86? i think it would go against the rwd sports coupe they are trying to portray...

[ej25ti]

why would you want a diesel engine for the ft86? i think it would go against the rwd sports coupe they are trying to portray...

did u see the torque specs on the BMW 335d???
jk lol
kinda

yea i wouldnt buy a diesel

[toyofan]

yea i wouldnt buy a diesel

if they did that ide probably kill myself.. at this time my next car is either gunna be the ft 86 (or the subie turbo version) or the new evolution from mitsibishi.. they are scrapping the lancer evolution as well as the regular lancer in 2012 or 2013 and are moving the evolution series to the newest of mitsubishi's econo car that will be similar to the lancer... they are talking about making the new evo turbo diesel or electric as well as a inline turbo 4cyl... everyone is going green and i really dont give a shit about the environment.. just give me my inline 4 cyl turbo and ill be just fine

[ej25ti]

...we still waiting on pics


lol

[toyofan]

yeah, i went out and took some and it says the file is too large.. how do u resize the pics with iphoto?

[Cal]

No idea. Here is what I found.

iClarified - iLife - How to Resize Photos in iPhoto 08

[ForRealSomeday]

Diesels are great. They work well in the LeMans racers, because of the rule concessions. The weight of a diesel engine, and the low usable RPM range would make it a complete TuRD in this car.

I'll take the boxer wrung out to about 8500RPM thanks.

[modifiedMR]

after hitting up the rx-8 on wikipedia, I'm thinking a new rx vehicle will push toyota to make a turbo model. It said the new rx model would weigh 2800 lbs and possibly have 290 hp! The rx-8 is right now about $27,000 and pushing 212-232, but only has 152 ft/lbs of tq. The newer ones have to have alot more power if they want to compete with the other cars in this segment (mustang/Z/camaro/etc.). If the rotary would get better mileage, I would say they aren't the same, but with such crappy mileage AND performance, the rx-8 is a bad choice, IMO. Especially since rotaries don't typically last as long and are harder to get worked on.

I agree about wringing this car out, but 8000 rpm is enough for me. Don't want to be like the celica's and s2000 where the higher rpms eat synchro's. Rather have some more lowend tq than they do. No diesel for me. Too heavy and not enough rpm/hp.

[Deslock]

after hitting up the rx-8 on wikipedia, I'm thinking a new rx vehicle will push toyota to make a turbo model. It said the new rx model would weigh 2800 lbs and possibly have 290 hp! The rx-8 is right now about $27,000 and pushing 212-232, but only has 152 ft/lbs of tq. The newer ones have to have alot more power if they want to compete with the other cars in this segment (mustang/Z/camaro/etc.). If the rotary would get better mileage, I would say they aren't the same, but with such crappy mileage AND performance, the rx-8 is a bad choice, IMO. Especially since rotaries don't typically last as long and are harder to get worked on.

I agree about wringing this car out, but 8000 rpm is enough for me. Don't want to be like the celica's and s2000 where the higher rpms eat synchro's. Rather have some more lowend tq than they do. No diesel for me. Too heavy and not enough rpm/hp.

Don't believe everything you read at wikipedia. There is no way the 16X will make 290 hp. The 13B-MSP is slightly overrated at 232 hp (seems to make closer to 225, which coincidenty is approximately what the 1995 RX-01 concept made) and Mazda has already said their intention is to improve MPG and low-end output, not peak power.

I had an RX8. I loved that car... for the money, it's the most fun 4 seater you can get. Also, rotary reliability concerns have been blown out of proportion. However, the wheelbase is a little too long, it weighs a little too much, and MPG is terrible. The Toyobaru addresses those concerns.

Having written that, you might be right in a way: if Mazda releases an RX-3/7/8/9/Kabura/whatever with 3+1 seating and 225 hp at ~2600 pounds, the 200 hp Toyobaru at (an expected) 2700-2800 pounds would be outclassed (price and MPG aside).

But given the state of the economy and recent focus on efficiency, I'm not holding my breath for a new Mazda rotary anytime soon, if ever.

[modifiedMR]

Don't believe everything you read at wikipedia. There is no way the 16X will make 290 hp. The 13B-MSP is slightly overrated at 232 hp (seems to make closer to 225, which coincidenty is approximately what the 1995 RX-01 concept made) and Mazda has already said their intention is to improve MPG and low-end output, not peak power.

I had an RX8. I loved that car... for the money, it's the most fun 4 seater you can get. Also, rotary reliability concerns have been blown out of proportion. However, the wheelbase is a little too long, it weighs a little too much, and MPG is terrible. The Toyobaru addresses those concerns.

Having written that, you might be right in a way: if Mazda releases an RX-3/7/8/9/Kabura/whatever with 3+1 seating and 225 hp at ~2600 pounds, the 200 hp Toyobaru at (an expected) 2700-2800 pounds would be outclassed (price and MPG aside).

But given the state of the economy and recent focus on efficiency, I'm not holding my breath for a new Mazda rotary anytime soon, if ever.

I don't believe everything on the wikipedia. It's not in production, so there's no reason to believe the specs. I'm just pointing out that the RX-8 is a failure in my view, but with 290 hp, the same weight and better fuel economy, it would beat the toyobaru. As it is, the toyobaru looks 3x better than an RX-8. The RX-8 would have been much better off with the Mazdaspeed3 engine. More tq AND better fuel economy? Yeah.

That said, if the ft-86 comes out with a 280 hp variant, similar to the jdm STI (look up 2.0 L STI), it would beat the unamed Mazda rotary. Rotaries lack tq and fuel economy. If you look at the jdm STI and then add twin fuel injection, you'll have a beast of a powerband AND 21-23 mpg average. I don't think Mazda can do that with a rotary. It just doesn't have that kind of potential with what I know of the rotary. They would have to have seriously come out with some new tech on it. I would like to see them do so. Competition is good.

[Deslock]

I don't believe everything on the wikipedia. It's not in production, so there's no reason to believe the specs. I'm just pointing out that the RX-8 is a failure in my view, but with 290 hp, the same weight and better fuel economy, it would beat the toyobaru. As it is, the toyobaru looks 3x better than an RX-8. The RX-8 would have been much better off with the Mazdaspeed3 engine. More tq AND better fuel economy? Yeah.

That said, if the ft-86 comes out with a 280 hp variant, similar to the jdm STI (look up 2.0 L STI), it would beat the unamed Mazda rotary. Rotaries lack tq and fuel economy. If you look at the jdm STI and then add twin fuel injection, you'll have a beast of a powerband AND 21-23 mpg average. I don't think Mazda can do that with a rotary. It just doesn't have that kind of potential with what I know of the rotary. They would have to have seriously come out with some new tech on it. I would like to see them do so. Competition is good.

On paper the MS3 and MS6 seemed really interesting. Then I drove them. Mediocre shifter and road feel, significant understeer, and the engine -though torquey- wasn't especially responsive, didn't like to rev, and ran out of steam well before redline. Given the choice, I'd take the MS3 over the MS6, but I'd take the RX8 over both in a heartbeat.

Could they squeeze the 2.3T in the RX8 without increasing weight significantly? I doubt it. Not only is the engine + turbo spaghetti heavier, but the extra low-end would mean needing beefier components throughout.

[ProZach626]

What year MS3 did you drive? I drove the first generation, before the smiley. I think it was a 2008. I was equally unimpressed. It seemed like the motor struggled to get to redline, and like you said, just ran out of breath. I was happy to get back into m y NA 09 civic si. If you were to put that same motor and tune into the RX-8 it would be good for burnouts, and that's about it.

I've heard the latest generation has a lot smoother powerband.

[Deslock]

What year MS3 did you drive? I drove the first generation, before the smiley. I think it was a 2008. I was equally unimpressed. It seemed like the motor struggled to get to redline, and like you said, just ran out of breath. I was happy to get back into m y NA 09 civic si. If you were to put that same motor and tune into the RX-8 it would be good for burnouts, and that's about it.

I've heard the latest generation has a lot smoother powerband.

I also drove the previous generation. I read that though the 2nd generation improvements are significant, they aren't game changing (which they would need to be for me to want one).

[toyofan]

meh, the new ms3 looks horrible with that smiley face on it... there is only one new ms3 that ive ever seen that I liked...
YouTube - ‪Mazdaspeed 3 Ultimate Racing Exhaust‬‏
with coils, black rims, and tinted windows/tail lights, the 2nd gen ms3 actually looks pretty nice!

[ej25ti]

meh, the new ms3 looks horrible with that smiley face on it... there is only one new ms3 that ive ever seen that I liked...
YouTube - ‪Mazdaspeed 3 Ultimate Racing Exhaust‬‏
with coils, black rims, and tinted windows/tail lights, the 2nd gen ms3 actually looks pretty nice!

looks good slammed on the BC's
but the red lip on the wheel kills it, and tinted tails seem a lil ricey, at least these days

[modifiedMR]

The ms3 isn't bad. A 14.4 ET and a .91g on the skidpad isn't bad for a fwd.
Comparison Test : 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 vs. 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8

Compare that to the RX-8
2008 Mazda RX-8

If you do a google search, best quarters are in the mid-14's, while the MS3 had times of low 14's. It's faster, even if it runs out of breathe at higher rpm.

According to different sources, I see .91g and .94g for the RX-8
2008 Mazda RX-8

Not bad, but considering it's slower, lower MPG AND smaller? The only thing the RX-8 seems to have is drivers feel, but IMO, if you don't need room, the s2000 or a lightly modded Z car will be a better fit by far.

renesis weight
247 lbs

mzr with accesories (turbo? probably not)
~300 lbs
then with turbo stuff (+50 lbs)
350 lbs

100 lbs wouldn't kill the car. It would be more front heavy, but that's not too hard to offset. Carbon fiber hood and relocate the battery to the trunk. problem mostly fixed. 100 or even 150 lbs won't kill a car with over 80 more tq, especially with some bigger tires. People have been turbo'ing the rx-8 for years and they don't grenade with 300+ whp, so it should be able to handle the mzr. I would swap to a larger turbo for more topend and drop some lowend. That will add speed and be easier on the trans. Regardless, the car would have been better with the mzr. They could have saved time on R&D by scraping the crappy idea of a rotary and then used lighter materials in the mzr with a larger turbo for higher end hp and presto 280 hp and 250 tq in the rx-8 with maybe 75 lbs of weight. The relocation of the batter could easily offset the distribution to closer to 50/50 and the real only sacrifice would be having a little weight higher in the car. Once again, placing the turbo lower and a fmic low, will help with that. It's all in r&d. Mazda would have saved LOTS of money by ditching the rotary and just making the mzr adapted to the rx-8. Would it handle as good? maybe not, but very close. Would it rock and s2000 AND probably a Z? At close to 280 hp and 250 tq, I'd say so. The flow in the MS3 is bad due to a smaller turbo. Add a larger turbo, cams, headwork and tune for it, the mzr would rock in the rx-8. The lower weight of the rx-8, even with the mzr would be very fast. Probably mid to low 13's. Faster than an rx-7 with better mpg's? doable.

[modifiedMR]

Back on topic.....

What power is the FB in the FRS going to have??? Scion, where are you at??? lol

Can we get boosted please???

[Deslock]

The ms3 isn't bad. A 14.4 ET and a .91g on the skidpad isn't bad for a fwd.
Comparison Test : 2010 Mazdaspeed 3 vs. 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8

Compare that to the RX-8

Skid numbers and quarter mile times are only indicators of driving dynamics... there's a lot more to momentum cars like the RX8 and Toyobaru.

The only thing the RX-8 seems to have is drivers feel, but IMO, if you don't need room, the s2000 or a lightly modded Z car will be a better fit by far.

The Z is very stiff for a daily driver, but yes if you don't need the rear seats then there are obviously better choices than the RX8 and Toyobaru.

100 lbs wouldn't kill the car. It would be more front heavy, but that's not too hard to offset. Carbon fiber hood and relocate the battery to the trunk. problem mostly fixed. 100 or even 150 lbs won't kill a car with over 80 more tq, especially with some bigger tires. People have been turbo'ing the rx-8 for years and they don't grenade with 300+ whp, so it should be able to handle the mzr.

Just because some people have managed to not have problems when modding doesn't mean it's safe and warrantable. There is no way Mazda would be able to offer the RX8 with the MS3's 280 ftlbs without beefing up the chassis and tranny.

Also the MZR would've made the car front engine rather than midship. Using carbon fiber components would offset only some of the extra weight while also adding cost.

The flow in the MS3 is bad due to a smaller turbo. Add a larger turbo, cams, headwork and tune for it, the mzr would rock in the rx-8.

If using a larger turbo, cams, headwork, and tuning was such a simple solution (that didn't mean more lag, worse emissions, etc), Mazda would've done it for the MS3.

[toyofan]

Back on topic.....

What power is the FB in the FRS going to have??? Scion, where are you at??? lol

Can we get boosted please???

well, it hasnt been confirmed that there will ever be a stock boosted version of the FRS but it is likely.. worst case scenario, we will be looking at a 200hp boxer engine that will be easily modifiable... if we end up getting a turbo version, it will likely be a single turbo and be about 250-275 hp with a price of around 30 grand... 0-60 times in the low 5s and quarters of about 14... if they go turbo its going to be an amazing machine and if they dont, we will still have a highly modifiable platform to work with!

[ProZach626]

I think you can just about count out all hopes of a turbo. The press, toyota, and subaru has said over and over again that this car will be NA. If they were going to boost the car, I would think they would come right out and say it, for GOOD publicity. It doesn't really advantage them to surprise people with a turbo charged model.

[modifiedMR]

I think you can just about count out all hopes of a turbo. The press, toyota, and subaru has said over and over again that this car will be NA. If they were going to boost the car, I would think they would come right out and say it, for GOOD publicity. It doesn't really advantage them to surprise people with a turbo charged model.

Yes it does. If they tell the tuning market niche there won't be a turbo, they'll buy the NA. Then 2 years later, a turbo option/model come out and people will trade their NA's in for turbo models. Also, they have not come out point blank and said there won't be a turbo. Since Scion doesn't do models, it's very plausible that there might be a turbo kit coming out later for it. It will very much depend on how high the compression of the NA engine is. I'd be willing to bet that there will be a Subaru turbo version in the future. When? Could be a long time off. Maybe even coming with the first revision.

Toyobaru talks with Scion Public Relations about Scion FR-S

"Will there be a factory turbo car, or will Scion offer add-on turbo packages for the FR-S?

We have to announce the production version before we are able to talk about any definitive accessory plans such as superchargers, turbos, or anything like that."

[ej25ti]

if it doesnt, it'll be cheaper and ill turbo it myself... end of story haha
though i guess it's gonna void my warranties =/

[Cal]

Or they could do a dealer option where you go in drop 1500-2000 and the dealer installs a "factory" turbo that is under warranty. Bam instant market.

[ProZach626]

Or they could do a dealer option where you go in drop 1500-2000 and the dealer installs a "factory" turbo that is under warranty. Bam instant market.

I like it.

[ej25ti]

i forget, how much was it for the TRD option sc for the tc

[Cal]

i forget, how much was it for the TRD option sc for the tc

I looked around it was about 3K for a supercharger option that gave up to 200hp.