Boxer Sports car Achitecture Teased Ahead of Geneva

[Exitspeed]

It is indeed RWD! Not sure if that was 100% confirmed or not but that is huge!

Now I may actually be interested in the Suby version!

SUBARU | BOXER Sports Car Architecture

[DonKingKong]

In before people start whining about it not having AWD. I'm glad it doesn't have AWD, keeps the weight down. If you want AWD get an Impreza. Although they should offer an Impreza coupe like they did a few years ago for you people who do want AWD.

[Cal]

I'm really interested in the suby version now. They keep on and I will be handing the stealership a big pile of money.

[kdiggz]

are you guys for real? or do you work for subaru and are trying to get us excited about a underpowered cloan of the scion?

so it's naturally aspirated and it's not awd? uhhh then why would anyone want it? even the v6 mustang makes 300hp these days. if they made an sti version awd and turbo i'd be the first person to put down a deposit and so would a lot of other people. the car they are set to debut is a joke and now i'm sad

hopefully they come out with the version i'm really waiting for some day

[kdiggz]

In before people start whining about it not having AWD. I'm glad it doesn't have AWD, keeps the weight down. If you want AWD get an Impreza. Although they should offer an Impreza coupe like they did a few years ago for you people who do want AWD.

and if you want a RWD sports coupe get a rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis...the list goes on forever! not to mention the scion which apparently is going to be the EXACT CAR as this. to say the market is saturated would be an understatement. quit being greedy.

meanwhile, NOBODY makes a awd sport coupe in this price range. it would have had the market all to itself. it would fill the void for a lot of buyers such as myself that like sporty cars but need awd because the weather isn't perfect every day.

so depressed now...

[Exitspeed]

Coupes should be RWD.

And no where does it say that they are not building an STI version with more power.

The only car that comes close to what these cars are supposed to represent in the list of the cars you mentioned (rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis) is the Genesis. The Mustang/Camaro are big, heavy V8's with muscle car styling, the RX8 is on it's way out the door and is over $30k and has 4 doors, the Miata is a Vert, and the Z's are heavy V6 over $30k. Only the Gen coupe in 4cyl turbo version is a direct competitor to this car.

The point of the Ft (and Sudy version) is more about less weight, paired with the correct amount of power, and balanced handling in a sub-$20,000 package. None of those cars are about that at all.

[bersh]

sweet.
now ill get a subaru. i didnt want awd.

dear kdiggz,
cady cts coupes are available with awd, same with bmw 3 series coupes..
infiniti G's, audi tt's, audi a5.... uhhhh i even think the korean attempt at a sporty coupe is available with awd next year. oh then theres the super cool lil suzukis that are coming out... saabs have a nifty awd system too.. i think you can get it on their coupe.
thats just off the top of my head.

[ej25ti]

It is indeed RWD! Not sure if that was 100% confirmed or not but that is huge!

good find! i think they did actually confirm it a few weeks ago though

and if you want a RWD sports coupe get a rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis...the list goes on forever! not to mention the scion which apparently is going to be the EXACT CAR as this. to say the market is saturated would be an understatement. quit being greedy.

meanwhile, NOBODY makes a awd sport coupe in this price range. it would have had the market all to itself. it would fill the void for a lot of buyers such as myself that like sporty cars but need awd because the weather isn't perfect every day.

so depressed now...

im actually gonna agree with this, feel free to rebut

[Exitspeed]

im actually gonna agree with this, feel free to rebut

See my previous post.

The only car that comes close to what these cars are supposed to represent in the list of the cars you mentioned (rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis) is the Genesis. The Mustang/Camaro are big, heavy V8's with muscle car styling, the RX8 is on it's way out the door and is over $30k and has 4 doors, the Miata is a Vert, and the Z's are heavy V6 over $30k. Only the Gen coupe in 4cyl turbo version is a direct competitor to this car.

The point of the Ft (and Sudy version) is more about less weight, paired with the correct amount of power, and balanced handling in a sub-$20,000 package. None of those cars are about that at all.

[kdiggz]

sweet.
now ill get a subaru. i didnt want awd.

dear kdiggz,
cady cts coupes are available with awd, same with bmw 3 series coupes..
infiniti G's, audi tt's, audi a5.... uhhhh i even think the korean attempt at a sporty coupe is available with awd next year. oh then theres the super cool lil suzukis that are coming out... saabs have a nifty awd system too.. i think you can get it on their coupe.
thats just off the top of my head.

you just listed off a bunch of old man entry level luxury cars. i want a sports coupe. sti/evo performance in a 370z body. i have an evo now but it is butt ugly, and i'm being generous. why not make a sexy 2 door awd sports car? a lighter weight baby gt-r if you will. that's what i was hoping this would be. i know a lot of other people agree with me too. it's a sad day indeed

[kdiggz]

See my previous post.

this will not be sub $20k. not even close. and i think by the time it hits production it will be heavier than you think it should. the cars listed are competitors and are going to in the end be the better cars imo. this car is going to be a dog. i hope they prove me wrong but i doubt it. i guess we'll see. but i'm not in the market for it anymore either way so i can care less.
sorry for venting, i'm just upset that the car i thought we were going to get is not going to happen

[Exitspeed]

this will not be sub $20k. not even close. and i think by the time it hits production it will be heavier than you think it should. the cars listed are competitors and are going to in the end be the better cars imo. this car is going to be a dog. i hope they prove me wrong but i doubt it. i guess we'll see. but i'm not in the market for it anymore either way so i can care less.
sorry for venting, i'm just upset that the car i thought we were going to get is not going to happen

Don't go cutting yourself or anything. lol

We will all just have to wait and see. That fact that Suby/Toyota are even making this car and I'm impressed with the FT already I will give them the benefit of the doubt.

What makes you think that if the FT is going to be sub $20k and this sounds like it will be essentially a rebadged Toyota that it too will not be sub $20k? I'm I'm talking sub $20k starting, not loaded.

[ej25ti]

you just listed off a bunch of old man entry level luxury cars. i want a sports coupe. sti/evo performance in a 370z body. i have an evo now but it is butt ugly, and i'm being generous. why not make a sexy 2 door awd sports car? a lighter weight baby gt-r if you will. that's what i was hoping this would be. i know a lot of other people agree with me too. it's a sad day indeed

i also agree with this

Coupes should be RWD.

And no where does it say that they are not building an STI version with more power.

The only car that comes close to what these cars are supposed to represent in the list of the cars you mentioned (rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis) is the Genesis. The Mustang/Camaro are big, heavy V8's with muscle car styling, the RX8 is on it's way out the door and is over $30k and has 4 doors, the Miata is a Vert, and the Z's are heavy V6 over $30k. Only the Gen coupe in 4cyl turbo version is a direct competitor to this car.

The point of the Ft (and Sudy version) is more about less weight, paired with the correct amount of power, and balanced handling in a sub-$20,000 package. None of those cars are about that at all.

the v6 mustangs and camaros are the same price range and still have more power... still wouldnt buy one though lol
i agree though, an sti version is probably in the making



i guess ill just have to keep my sti as a winter car for the snow
and find the money for this elsewhere
lol

[kdiggz]

Don't go cutting yourself or anything. lol

haha. i've been google searching and reading info about this car for over a year now thinking it was going to be a awd sport coupe with wrx/sti type performance in an attractive package. i'm just depressed and let down after all the build up. now i have to go rob a bank so i can afford a used GT-R

[Exitspeed]

the v6 mustangs and camaros are the same price range and still have more power...l

But are also, big and heavy and have Muscle Car Styling. These are going to be true Japanese Sport Coupes. And I'm betting will be much lighter then The Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, or Z's.

[ej25ti]

But are also, big and heavy and have Muscle Car Styling. These are going to be true Japanese Sport Coupes. And I'm betting will be much lighter then The Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, or Z's.

they may be heavy at 3500, but theyre still outlapping all other cars in it class on all tracks, not just straight line, the RX8 at 3000, even the new sti's at 3400
the last thing i want is a "v6" mustang passing me on the highway! i remember when i used to have no problem outrunning the GT's!

[Exitspeed]

they may be heavy at 3500, but theyre still outlapping all other cars in it class on all tracks, not just straight line, the RX8 at 3000, even the new sti's at 3400
the last thing i want is a "v6" mustang passing me on the highway! i remember when i used to have no problem outrunning the GT's!

Plus those V6 Mustangs and soon Camaros are getting 30mpg.

[ej25ti]

Plus those V6 Mustangs and soon Camaros are getting 30mpg.

yea i didnt even think of that lol... and the boxer engines arent anywhere close to that =/

[Exitspeed]

Funny how in the 90's and early 2000's the Japanese companies were really on top of things engineering and design wise, and now GM and Ford are leading the way again. Honda especially has fallen so far behind it's not even funny.

[drperry]

yea i didnt even think of that lol... and the boxer engines arent anywhere close to that =/

The 2011 Impreza is rated for 31 MPG

The WRX is 29.4 MPG

The STi is 26.8 MPG

Too bad the power isn't as high as those V6's though...
The Boxers would definitely suffer if they had to haul 3800lbs around all the time

[Run]

stupid question from me but where is the Geneva Auto Show 2011 taking place?

[West]

Well holy crap! Nice find, thanks for posting it up! Ive been tied up all damn day today without Inet access.

I guess we wil find out if its RWD next week. Im rather perplexed that it may debut as RWD. Either way, more swappable parts for us!





Im hibernating until Geneva.

[ej25ti]

i dont understand where caradvice.com.au got that second image from? unless one of them threw it together on photoshop
anyway

stupid question from me but where is the Geneva Auto Show 2011 taking place?

switzerland lol

The 2011 Impreza is rated for 31 MPG

The WRX is 29.4 MPG

The STi is 26.8 MPG

Too bad the power isn't as high as those V6's though...
The Boxers would definitely suffer if they had to haul 3800lbs around all the time

my STi gets nowhere near that! hahaha
19 mpg is good, and i feel i drive rather conservatively most of the time

[Cal]

haha. i've been google searching and reading info about this car for over a year now thinking it was going to be a awd sport coupe with wrx/sti type performance in an attractive package. i'm just depressed and let down after all the build up. now i have to go rob a bank so i can afford a used GT-R

Good luck with the maintenance on that.

[blood mtn]

I can't tell if that's the new FB or not

[Deslock]

they may be heavy at 3500, but theyre still outlapping all other cars in it class on all tracks, not just straight line, the RX8 at 3000, even the new sti's at 3400
the last thing i want is a "v6" mustang passing me on the highway! i remember when i used to have no problem outrunning the GT's!

In the prior post, you were referring to the V6 Mustang and Camaro:

the v6 mustangs and camaros are the same price range and still have more power

Just to clarify, you're claiming that the V6 Mustang and Camaro are outlapping the RX8 and STI on all tracks?

I'm betting will be much lighter then The Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, or Z's.

Yep, that's precisely the point. Those are all muscle cars. At the target weight of 1200kg, this would be more of a sports car. At the rumored weight of 1300kg, it's far less appealing, but is still significantly lighter than those others (whether it's light enough to bother with is another question).

The only car that comes close to what these cars are supposed to represent in the list of the cars you mentioned (rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis) is the Genesis.

My autoblog post regarding the usual comparisons:

it's not like the market is flush with cheap, efficient, lightweight, RWD four-seaters. The Miata seats only two. The S2000 sat two, was more expensive, and is out of production. The Mustang, Genesis, and Camaro are large and weigh significantly more. The Scion tC, GTI, MCS, and Civic Si are FWD. The RX8 is the only car remotely similar, and it's got a longer wheelbase, is slightly heavier, is more expensive, sucks down fuel, and is not going to be available in the USA after MY2011.

The Z didn't come up at autoblog, but that car seats only 2, is more expensive, and is heavier.

if you want a RWD sports coupe get a rx8, miata, s2000, 350z/370z, mustang, genesis...the list goes on forever! not to mention the scion which apparently is going to be the EXACT CAR as this. to say the market is saturated would be an understatement. quit being greedy.

See my autoblog post above about how the market is not saturated with cars like this and why those other cars are not comparable.

That leaves the Toyota/Scion version. In an ideal world, Subaru could build a cheap, lightweight, powerful, AWD car. In the real world, you have to choose 2 or 3 of those attributes. As is Subaru and Toyota had to combine resources to afford to develop a simpler RWD car like this. And judging by the engine position, an AWD version wasn't ever planned (there's no room in there for it). It appears that it was always intended to be the same car, apart from the styling.

NOBODY makes a awd sport coupe in this price range. it would have had the market all to itself. it would fill the void for a lot of buyers such as myself that like sporty cars but need awd because the weather isn't perfect every day.

Are you one of those rare people that actually drives through deep, unplowed snow often enough to need AWD/4WD, or are you one of those people that thinks they need AWD when they really just need to get snow tires and learn to drive? Again from my autoblog post:

I drove my Miata through the worst part of every snow storm this winter, except for one (and that wasn't because of the conditions; I just happened to carpool that day). With snow tires it did just fine here in hilly western Massachusetts. AWD simply isn't necessary for most (I write that as an ex WRX owner who loved drifting and hitting the boost).

so it's naturally aspirated and it's not awd? uhhh then why would anyone want it?

IDGAF if it's got 2 or 4 doors. Would prefer a hatch for the extra practicality, but I'll settle for a coupe as long as it's cheap, seats 4, has low mass, low COG and MOI, balanced distribution, a tight shifter and steering, good road feel, responsive throttle, short wheel base, decent MPG, and is not FWD. It doesn't need to make much output to be fun, though obviously the higher the power/weight ratio the better.

[kdiggz]

Are you one of those rare people that actually drives through deep, unplowed snow often enough to need AWD/4WD, or are you one of those people that thinks they need AWD when they really just need to get snow tires and learn to drive?

Ummm are you serious? One of the rare? You obviously don't watch the news. The east coast got SLAMMED with snow this year. The MAJORITY of the people in this country need to drive through snow. Welcome to reality. Don't tell me I don't know how to drive through snow. I live in Buffalo dude haha. I've tried the rwd with snow tires thing and it doesn't fly. It's not worth risking your life. Not to mention, you obviously don't understand the dynamics of awd putting the power down efficiently. The GT-R doesn't have awd because it was made for snow. It has awd in order to put the power down better than any other car out there. Same with my current car, the evo. So yes, I do NEED awd. I'm not going to be one of those idiots that gets stranded in a ditch or fearing for my life just so I can drive a good looking car

[ej25ti]

In the prior post, you were referring to the V6 Mustang and Camaro:

Just to clarify, you're claiming that the V6 Mustang and Camaro are outlapping the RX8 and STI on all tracks?

yup i was
Sortable Times: Complete Lightning Lap Times 2006 to 2011 - Feature - Car and Driver

Are you one of those rare people that actually drives through deep, unplowed snow often enough to need AWD/4WD, or are you one of those people that thinks they need AWD when they really just need to get snow tires and learn to drive? Again from my autoblog post:

I don't know if he's one of those people, but I definitely am! I live in Western Mass, and there were multiple mornings this winter that AWD was most definitely needed! I have to leave for work by 4:30AM and no, the streets are NOT plowed by then. Unfortunately I was stuck in a rental Sonata for the past month, and there were a few mornings, I was late due to the fact that I couldn't leave my driveway.

IDGAF if it's got 2 or 4 doors. Would prefer a hatch for the extra practicality, but I'll settle for a coupe as long as it's cheap, seats 4, has low mass, low COG and MOI, balanced distribution, a tight shifter and steering, good road feel, responsive throttle, short wheel base, decent MPG, and is not FWD. It doesn't need to make much output to be fun, though obviously the higher the power/weight ratio the better.

So buy an Impreza?

[ProZach626]

Where did it say that this car wasn't going to be turbo charged???

[G4BROKE]

[OFF TOPIC]
I do believe that the Buffalo area , or 'real' upperstate N.Y. and into Canada, gets way more snow and nasty weather than lower New England....sure once in a while all on the east coast would likely get the same amount. I have many years experience around that area and understand what "Lake Effect" snow does to an area (back to Conn. since 2002). lower N.E. snow falls are always tame in comparison and usually it's not news worthy to mention such unless it's a record for the year etc.

Anyone can drive a FWD/RWD 'very slow' (so called "safe") in the winter w/ snow, but try it against a AWD, and up to capable handling speeds and let's see how driving abilities are then. It's not always the driver, it is both, that are factors. There are many factors to things and situations, of course.
[\OFF TOPIC]