Boxer Sports car Achitecture Teased Ahead of Geneva

[drperry]

Ummm are you serious? One of the rare? You obviously don't watch the news. The east coast got SLAMMED with snow this year. The MAJORITY of the people in this country need to drive through snow. Welcome to reality. Don't tell me I don't know how to drive through snow. I live in Buffalo dude haha. I've tried the rwd with snow tires thing and it doesn't fly. It's not worth risking your life. Not to mention, you obviously don't understand the dynamics of awd putting the power down efficiently. The GT-R doesn't have awd because it was made for snow. It has awd in order to put the power down better than any other car out there. Same with my current car, the evo. So yes, I do NEED awd. I'm not going to be one of those idiots that gets stranded in a ditch or fearing for my life just so I can drive a good looking car

With good tires, and a good weight balance any RWD is good for a foot of snow.

I never use my 4x4 on the road because I don't need it.

My higher ground clearance meanse I can push through more snow than a car can, but that's about it.

Does 4x4/AWD make it easier? Yes. Do you NEED it? No.

I doubt AWD is going to help a car 3" off the ground make it through 2 - 3 feet of snow.

If you're that worried about huge dumps of snow, you should be shopping for a lifted 4x4 truck. In deep snow, mud tires are better than winter tires... Winter tires are made to grip on ice.

[ryun84]

And that is why I live in southern California. There were a few days we had 80 degree temperatures this winter! LOL!

Anyways (trying to get more on topic), this link of a live feed of the Geneva Motor Show was posted in another forum. Have at it.

Webcam Palexpo Hall 4 & 5

[G4BROKE]

And that is why I live in southern California. There were a few days we had 80 degree temperatures this winter! LOL!

Anyways (trying to get more on topic), this link of a live feed of the Geneva Motor Show was posted in another forum. Have at it.

Webcam Palexpo Hall 4 & 5

Cool link!....and you Cali (west coast) folks...... .. jk-LOL!

[ryun84]

Cool link!....and you Cali (west coast) folks...... .. jk-LOL!

It's OK. We have higher cases of skin cancer.

[West]

I guess we will only get to see the internals!? See through plastic body!? Ughhh

In recent releases, Subaru has told us that the company will reveal its sports car concept, co-developed with Toyota, at next week’s Geneva Motor Show.

Some press reports are suggesting that Subaru will be showing us their version of the Toyota FT-86, which employs the same platform and boxer drivetrain.

Well, here is the latest. Yes, Subaru will be showing us their FT-86 (under a different name of course), a rear-drive, 2.0 liter-powered coupe. But unlike Toyota who will be unveiling an upgraded body kit of their first FT-86, the Subaru variant will wear what they are calling a “skeleton see-through” plastic body kit, showing its chassis and powertrain. Apparently the plexiglass body will resemble the shape of the FT-86 but will not be a carbon copy. Suddenly that teaser image makes a lot of sense.

Subaru’s spokesman told us that their sole purpose at Geneva is to focus attention on their participation in the Toyota-Subaru joint project, that being of course the Subaru-developed boxer powertrain, chassis and suspension package. Not the body.

Source: http://wot.motortrend.com/fast-subar...eva-34041.html

[ej25ti]

^^ WTF! NO!!!! I will be SO MAD if this is true! I've been looking forward to March for WAY too long! and now we have to wait till December! WTF everyone's gonna have lost interest in this stupid shit by then! WTF FUJI!!!

also this from the Jan 14th press release makes more sense now as well, notice how they said "technology" concept

"Subaru Rear-Wheel Drive Sports Car Technology Concept
A Subaru rear-wheel drive sports car is currently under joint development as part of the business alliance
with Toyota Motor Corporation. Based on an all-new platform, the vehicle will offer Subaru’s distinctive
trademark and core technology: the “Horizontally-Opposed Subaru Boxer engine”. The concept embodies
Subaru’s established know-how in manufacturing boxer-powered passenger cars; it shows how Subaru
proposes to integrate this expertise into a rear-wheel drive car to offer a new and highly enjoyable,
Subaru-like driving experience. The technology concept will demonstrate how the all-new car platform
makes full use of Subaru’s engineering and Boxer technology"

[G4BROKE]

"patience grasshoppa!" lol

After all these years...things are coming together just as suggested in the past, as I heard and read information on this project. But, in the end, I did not believe I could hold out for this vehicle. So in the meantime, I bought and modded an 08 STI, and this was over 2 yrs ago. Subaru is surely making an 2dr (coupe/hatch) AWD STI but will not be released anytime soon...likely 2013...my belief. I've started to believe what Subaru is planning during the release is pretty clever and they will make monies. Well, shall see....hahaha...



Patience.....in the meantime....drive on!
(this is my opinion, no facts are provided here; this is from my theory via info i read from the past, it's been fairly dead-on since over many years.)

[ej25ti]

"patience grasshoppa!

lol

and by the time they release this shit ur 08 is probably gonna be like 6 years old! ugh
and i really doubt my 05 will still be running! hahaha

[G4BROKE]

lol

and by the time they release this shit ur 08 is probably gonna be like 6 years old! ugh
and i really doubt my 05 will still be running! hahaha

Yes, she will be older but get some minimum car surgery to keep her looking young, and for sure be whoring all over the roads some more.....By then, she's be an "auto milf" to all the newer car! lol

[kdiggz]

[OFF TOPIC]
I do believe that the Buffalo area , or 'real' upperstate N.Y. and into Canada, gets way more snow and nasty weather than lower New England....sure once in a while all on the east coast would likely get the same amount. I have many years experience around that area and understand what "Lake Effect" snow does to an area (back to Conn. since 2002). lower N.E. snow falls are always tame in comparison and usually it's not news worthy to mention such unless it's a record for the year etc.

Anyone can drive a FWD/RWD 'very slow' (so called "safe") in the winter w/ snow, but try it against a AWD, and up to capable handling speeds and let's see how driving abilities are then. It's not always the driver, it is both, that are factors. There are many factors to things and situations, of course.
[\OFF TOPIC]

Good points. However, I would wager a guess that you east coast folks got more snow than we did in Buffalo this year. We had maybe 3-4 storms where we got like 5-6 inches of snow. Nothing like what the 2 big storms bos/nyc/phila/dc areas got! We get a bad rap for some reason but they get WAY more snow in Syracuse. Oh well, GO BILLS!

[Cal]

Good points. However, I would wager a guess that you east coast folks got more snow than we did in Buffalo this year. We had maybe 3-4 storms where we got like 5-6 inches of snow. Nothing like what the 2 big storms bos/nyc/phila/dc areas got! We get a bad rap for some reason but they get WAY more snow in Syracuse. Oh well, GO BILLS!

5-6 inches would transform GA into a 3rd world country. People might start cannibalizing.

[ej25ti]

5-6 inches would transform GA into a 3rd world country. People might start cannibalizing.

hahaha

[Exitspeed]

I live in WI and I still only want the RWD version. A foot of snow is nothing. We're still expected at work with that kinda snow.

Shit I drove my 240's for years in the snow and LOVED it. Sure my current Corolla is easier to drive, but not as fun.

[Deslock]

Ummm are you serious? One of the rare?

Yes.

You obviously don't watch the news. The east coast got SLAMMED with snow this year.

Oh noes, it's the snopocalypse! From the part of my post that you didn't quote: "I drove my Miata through the worst part of every snow storm this winter, except for one (and that wasn't because of the conditions; I just happened to carpool that day). With snow tires it did just fine here in hilly western Massachusetts. AWD simply isn't necessary for most (I write that as an ex WRX owner who loved drifting and hitting the boost)."

Yes there are other areas that got even more snow than we did, but *most* of the trouble people had was because they were unprepared and/or inexperienced with snow.

The MAJORITY of the people in this country need to drive through snow. Welcome to reality.

Needing to drive through snow is not the same thing as needing AWD. For the majority of people, AWD is a convenience, not a necessity.

Don't tell me I don't know how to drive through snow. I live in Buffalo dude haha. I've tried the rwd with snow tires thing and it doesn't fly. It's not worth risking your life.

That's just a bit dramatic. If things are so bad that you actually need AWD/4WD, a low clearance sport coupe probably isn't a good idea regardless of drivetrain.

For me, not having AWD simply means that I check the forecast and get up extra early in case I have to dig out. I keep a small shovel and sand in my trunk during heavy storms (never needed the sand, but I used the shovel once in the parking lot after work). I am mindful of the depth of snow on unplowed roads and a try not to stop on icy uphills.

Actually, I did most of that when I had AWD too.

Not to mention, you obviously don't understand the dynamics of awd putting the power down efficiently.

Untrue. From my autoblog post:

AWD has traction advantages (especially on wet and loose surfaces)

The GT-R doesn't have awd because it was made for snow. It has awd in order to put the power down better than any other car out there. Same with my current car, the evo.

Agreed. However, that has nothing to do with our discussion as I've never argued against AWD's traction advantages.

So yes, I do NEED awd.

I know people who do actually need AWD/4WD. Nothing you've written indicates that you're one of them.

[Deslock]

Anyone can drive a FWD/RWD 'very slow' (so called "safe") in the winter w/ snow, but try it against a AWD, and up to capable handling speeds and let's see how driving abilities are then. It's not always the driver, it is both, that are factors. There are many factors to things and situations, of course.

That wasn't in dispute. However, kdiggz claims that he *needs* AWD.

[Deslock]

Just to clarify, you're claiming that the V6 Mustang and Camaro are outlapping the RX8 and STI on all tracks?

yup i was
Sortable Times: Complete Lightning Lap Times 2006 to 2011 - Feature - Car and Driver

Beating them in one magazine test (or presumably a few tests) doesn't mean that the V6 beat those other cars "on all tracks" (as you put it).

Don't get me wrong; the 2011 V6 Mustang deserves props for the times achieved by Car and Driver at the Virginia International Raceway (4.1 miles long configuration aka "Grand West Course"). It even beat the 2010 Mustang GT. But then again, so did the Cobalt SS... that doesn't make me want to go back to FWD.

I don't know if he's one of those people, but I definitely am! I live in Western Mass, and there were multiple mornings this winter that AWD was most definitely needed! I have to leave for work by 4:30AM and no, the streets are NOT plowed by then. Unfortunately I was stuck in a rental Sonata for the past month, and there were a few mornings, I was late due to the fact that I couldn't leave my driveway.

Did your Sonata rental have snow tires? I drove my Miata through unplowed western MA roads (slightly later: at ~5:30 AM). Dunno what your driveway is like, but mine is ~100ft and steep.

Again, there's no argument that AWD is convenient. But it's not necessary for most.

IDGAF if it's got 2 or 4 doors. Would prefer a hatch for the extra practicality, but I'll settle for a coupe as long as it's cheap, seats 4, has low mass, low COG and MOI, balanced distribution, a tight shifter and steering, good road feel, responsive throttle, short wheel base, decent MPG, and is not FWD. It doesn't need to make much output to be fun, though obviously the higher the power/weight ratio the better.

So buy an Impreza?

The Impreza isn't even close:

• cheap? Base model yes, WRX and STI no
• seats 4? yes
• has low mass? no
• low COG? no (though it gets an honorable mention for the boxer)
• low MOI? no
• balanced distribution? no
• tight shifter? no except for STI
• tight steering? no except for STI
• good road feel? no except for STI
• responsive throttle? no except for STI (I drove a 2010 WRX and it was better than my 2002, but still not great)
• short wheel base? no (though the Toyobaru isn't much shorter)
• decent MPG? base model is mediocre, WRX AND STI no
• not FWD? yes

Not trying to crap on the Impreza with all that... the STI was a blast when I drove one a few years back. And I have fond memories of my WRX's boost rush and drifting. But I've moved on. Life is too short for understeer (and I doubt we'll ever see a cheap, light, AWD car without it).

[ej25ti]

Again, there's no argument that AWD is convenient

yes and i enjoy the convenience lol
when i found out this was not going to be awd i was unhappy
if i dont have to shovel out my driveway at 430am i am satisfied

[Cal]

Deslock And your point is? Some people feel it is neccesary whether they get mental comort from it or actual increased safety.
Don't really think you are in a position to tell people what is and is not neccesary for them.

[Deslock]

Some people feel it is neccesary whether they get mental comort from it or actual increased safety.

There's a fine line between getting mental comfort (which is fine) and having a false sense of security (which can be dangerous).

Don't really think you are in a position to tell people what is and is not neccesary for them.

While I provided my opinion that nothing kdiggz has written indicates that he actually needs AWD, I didn't actually tell him what is or is not necessary for him. That would be silly. For all I know, he could be a skilled driver with a commute for which RWD with snow tires is inadequate. Or he could be one of those drivers that overestimates the benefits of AWD in snow and doesn't take the time to learn how to properly handle a vehicle in slippery conditions.

Deslock And your point is?

It's nonsensical to equate needing to drive in snow with needing AWD.

Getting back to the topic, the FT86 was intended to be cheap and lightweight. I don't think AWD was ever in the cards.

[DucRider]

I have to agree with Deslock somewhat. Although somebodies personal preference is their choice. I live in Canada and have been through some pretty wild weather driving. At the time I was driving my Honda with summer tires that were low on tread. As long as you can handle your car in bad weather there is no absolute reason for AWD. But regardless both cars are going RWD and I for one am happy for it. There were bound to be people disappointed either way.

[Gaen]

And that is why I live in southern California. There were a few days we had 80 degree temperatures this winter! LOL!

Anyways (trying to get more on topic), this link of a live feed of the Geneva Motor Show was posted in another forum. Have at it.

Webcam Palexpo Hall 4 & 5

change the 1 to 2

Webcam Palexpo Hall 6

and u get hall 6 :P