FR-S/FT-86/216A being tested against Mk IV Supra

[MrVito]

New FT-86 spy shots [UPDATED with video!] | Tune86 - FT-86 news

Notice the white Supra leading the camo'd ft86, and again, parked at the garage where the FR-S pulls in. manufacturers regularly test against another make/model, or use one as their target, (Ford targeting the M3's performance numbers on the Nurburgring with the new 5.0 Mustangs, etc). If Toyota and Subaru using a mk IV Supra as the performance benchmark, this could mean very good things.

[Cal]

Yea aiming for the supra would be good. I wonder how the Supra was as far as handling. I know its a straight line demon, but I'm not too certain on the twisties.

[Susanoo]

The two cars are not in the same category.
It will be better to make a comparison with the S2000 but it's not a toyota...

[MrVito]

The two cars are not in the same category.
It will be better to make a comparison with the S2000 but it's not a toyota...

If they're testing it against the N/A Supra, I would say they are certainly in the same category, the N/A mk IV made 220 hp at the crank, weighed just over 3200 lbs, 14.5lb per 1hp, if the FR-S is 2800 lbs, it would need 193 crank HP to have the same ratio. Combined with better weight distribution on the FR-S, I'd say its a good competitor. The US market TT Supras were 3400 lbs and 320hp, showing a better ratio of 10.6:1, a turbo FR-S would need 265hp to hit this mark, which has been done and exceeded on EJ205's and EJ207 in factory trim. Lets not confuse the "Legendary" status of the Supra with the factory performance of the car.

Now the 2J family of motors vs the EJ motor series, (particularly in the aftermarket realm), that's a completely different ballgame.

[Susanoo]

You're right I thought about the turbo Supra but against the N/A version it's almost the same specs

[modifiedMR]

If the ft-86 was sporting a turbo, it might be able to keep up. Maybe they were testing it with the turbo vs turbo and then added the aero to see if that could make up the difference? Nurburgring is supposedly almost like a regular road with small bumps and what not. There are many tight turns and the Supra won't do as well here compared to the nimble car. The only problem is that there are a few straights with one being very long that would be hard to keep up.

It could have been NA vs NA, but the NA supra I wouldn't think could do very well on the track. I think with the forester getting a bump in HP of 4 hp and 4 tq, the fr-s should be able to do alot more. Since it has the D4-S fuel injection, probably bigger cams and valves and a tuned for performance, it should make for quite a bit of power. I could do some research and figure out what people have made with cams in the NA EJ's and it should do similar in the FB or better (read dual fuel injection). I know in NA cars that respond to mods well, just building the head and tuning it can result in 15-30 whp and that would be more like 17-35 hp at the engine. IF toyota pushes the label here, I'm expecting this car to be at about 210 hp and 180 tq.

Seeing how the company has now come to be a more aimed at some performance (LFA and IS-F), I'm hoping they make this thing fly. lol

[Run]

Why would they slap Subaru wheels on the FR-S? Those wheels are better for AWD not RWD?

[ej25ti]

Why would they slap Subaru wheels on the FR-S? Those wheels are better for 4WD not RWD?

why

and also, im pretty sure the white supra is a tt

[Cal]

I am curious to know what makes those wheels better for 4wd as well, and I am guessing you meant AWD?

[Run]

I am curious to know what makes those wheels better for 4wd as well, and I am guessing you meant AWD?

oops yes AWD... those wheels specs are not staggered. thats what im saying. why didnt they test the car with staggered wheels instead how a RWD car should be.

[modifiedMR]

oops yes AWD... those wheels specs are not staggered. thats what im saying. why didnt they test the car with staggered wheels instead how a RWD car should be.

Because the car is very well balanced. IIRC, 240sx's were fitted with a non-staggered setup.

[Cal]

Because the car is very well balanced. IIRC, 240sx's were fitted with a non-staggered setup.

Correct. same size all around.

[DrewsiferxXx]

And the mirrors also, the car needs rwd mirrors. O.o

[Cal]

^Rwd mirrors?

[DrewsiferxXx]

^Rwd mirrors?

Yes, because the mirrors are as drivetrain specific as the wheels are.

[ryun84]

Huh?

[modifiedMR]

Why would they slap Subaru wheels on the FR-S? Those wheels are better for AWD not RWD?

^this. Meaning non-staggered is good for awd and not for rwd. This is not totally true though. A well-balanced rwd can use non-staggered rims/tires without sacraficing performance. Actually, it should help to make the car more nuetral. It should power on oversteer and understeer slightly in tight cornering, if done right. Basically, if you punch it around a corner, it will oversteer and if you are coasting/braking into a turn, it will understeer. A staggered setup helps reduce power-on oversteer, which might not be an issue with this car. I do know the mr2's changed tire sizes in '93 due to the "media" giving the car a somewhat "dangerous type car" reviews. They also revised the suspension to make the car more understeer prone.

[Toyoriffic]

And a RWD car will also handle just as good as a FWD car in the snow, too, eh? Or is that just an old, incorrect wive's tale?

Conventional wisdom has always said that AWD is best in the snow, FWD next-best and RWD is the worst. What's all of yer all's testimony on this case sound like?

[ej25ti]

And a RWD car will also handle just as good as a FWD car in the snow, too, eh? Or is that just an old, incorrect wive's tale?

Conventional wisdom has always said that AWD is best in the snow, FWD next-best and RWD is the worst. What's all of yer all's testimony on this case sound like?

NO NO NO! We already had this argument!!!

the conventional wisdom is right! the end
lol

[modifiedMR]

And a RWD car will also handle just as good as a FWD car in the snow, too, eh? Or is that just an old, incorrect wive's tale?

Depends on car and depends on driver. For bad drivers and poorly designed rwd cars, driving them in snow/rain is more dangerous. For good drivers with most rwd vehicles, it should be about the same and if not better. Why? Rwd has better traction, it is under loss of traction that it becomes an issue. If you know how to correct loss of traction in a rwd, it's not an issue. It's also about how the car is designed. A 5 series bmw will be better than a mustang.

background: I've driven for a living for over 4 years in various conditions. Some of which involved the national guard. I've commercially/delivery driven for periods of time a rwd mr2, a fwd corolla, rwd box truck, and a 4wd Nissan titan. Have owned and driven many different fwd's, rwd's and the occasional 4wd titan. I can tell you rwd isn't bad in the snow, if you know what you are doing. You can drive a front wheel drive more on edge in snow, but if you are driving safely, they work about the same really. Only 2 tires giving traction. A 4wd works better.

back on topic: Hope there is a turbo scion/subaru and it beats the supra in all performance aspects, while making better mileage!

[Toyoriffic]

NO NO NO! We already had this argument!!!

Umm...I wasn't arguing. Why in hell's bells would anyone argue about traction in the snow, anyway? Sheesh. OK, I won't bring the question up again off-topic especially in this thread again! And that's final.

[ej25ti]

haha i just didnt wanna bring up the topic again lol, i dont remember which thread it was on but it got pretty stupid haha

[Toyoriffic]

I guess what I'm thinking is I'm getting more and more stoked about this car but I live in a very icy, snowy area of northern Idaho and this car is RWD. I love the car but don't want to slide all over hell while driving! That's all. I'll quit posting off-topic in here. I am a very cautious driver and would probably be fine with the Scion FR-S.

I want a red one, what color are you guys moving towards?

[ej25ti]

I live in MA which isn't quite as bad but still pretty bad.
and i used to have an IS300 which I think I might be able to say is one of the worst cars ever for winter driving! lol