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  1. #1

    Post Toyota Exec Meetings - Confirmed FT-86 To Be a Scion in the USA



    Ive been sitting on this information in disbelief, however we have other confirmations in hand now. According to our inside source at Toyota the FT-86 is going to be released as a Scion in the USA. Toyota and Scion Marketing and Management adjourned across the US this past Tuesday to receive the news. Their reasons behind using Scion is reported as Marketability and pricing structure, Scions as you might know share a fixed pricing structure at all dealerships. If released as a Toyota the FT86 could be suspect to price hikes. In the end it sounded like Subaru and Toyota thought that Scion was the best choice for the FT-86, I strongly disagree.

    The report also included that of a 2.5l Engine would make it to production. The current engine "marketed" with the Toyota FT-86 is only a 2.0 liter. The choice of the 2.5l is a good one. However they are also increasing the original entry level price range around $25,000 US.

    In the meeting was a 3D hologram of the FT-86, although its not known if it was changed or as the Scion branding. Our source also provided details of the Subaru variant, and I'm afraid to the bad news continues. The Subaru 216a is expected to be released in Euro markets only. We did not receive reports of the other Markets, such as Asia, Australia, Japan. These markets would be more likely to get a Toyota and not a Scion, which isn't an international brand.

    The car is expected to be break into US shores at the NY Auto Show this April.

    Price Range: $25,000
    Expected Date: 2012, after the the Scion IQ.
    Engine: 2.5 Liter Boxer
    Name: Still undecided, although Likely Scion FR-S
    Body Style Changes: Yes, slightly more square.

    UPDATE: I had more time with my source and they explained this is Toyota's last ditch move to save the failing brand, Scion. Scion sells well in California, Texas, but not that well anywhere else. I was also told the body design will be slight changed, Toyota doesn't want the FT-86 to compete with the Lexus IS brand so they are making the design a bit more square. More bad news if you ask me.

  2. #2
    Need more confirmation?

    =WSJ UPDATE: Toyota Aims To Lift Annual US Sales To 2M Vehicles By 2013 -
    Sources

    Wed Oct 06 23:40:40 2010 EDT

    By Mike Ramsey
    Of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

    LAS VEGAS, Nev. (Dow Jones)--Toyota Motor Corp. on Wednesday challenged U.S.
    dealers to boost annual sales in the U.S. to two million vehicles by 2013, an
    increase of 30% over its current level, according to two people briefed by the
    company.

    Yoshi Inaba, president of the U.S. operations, made the challenge to more
    than a thousand dealers who attended a national dealer meeting, this person
    said.

    The automaker also showed dealers the two new versions of its Prius hybrid
    that it plans to introduce in the U.S. before the end of 2012, these people
    said.

    The new versions include a subcompact that is smaller than the current Prius
    hatchback and about the size of Toyota's Yaris subcompact, they said.

    The other looks like a small sport-utility vehicle and has 50% more interior
    and cargo space than the existing Prius model, the people said.

    Toyota has discussed for more than a year the idea of expanding the number
    hybrid models it offers under the Prius name.

    After the dealer meeting, Toyota also announced in a statement that it would
    make standard its free two-year, 25,0000-mile scheduled maintenance program.
    The offer was started as an incentive program in March and never discontinued.
    It now applies to all future sales of Toyota and Scion models.

    Toyota is seeking to return to the rapid growth rate that made it the world's
    largest automaker. On Tuesday, Lexus dealers were told that Toyota would offer
    rebates and subsidize loans and leases on most Lexus models in a bid to help
    the luxury brand secure the top sales spot among premium brands.

    Lexus has been the top-selling luxury make in the U.S. for about a decade but
    trails Mercedes-Benz so far this year.

    Toyota has lost more than a percentage point of market share in 2010 so far,
    mainly as a result of the fallout from the quality and safety crisis that
    engulfed the auto maker earlier this year.

    In Las Vegas, Toyota Chief Executive Akio Toyoda also told the dealers that
    his number one priority was to give customers peace of mind about the products
    and to enliven the brand, making the cars more fun and enjoyable to drive, the
    people briefed by the company said.

    Toyota promised last January that it would go forward with an expanded Prius
    line, including, a plug-in version of the Prius that can go about 13 miles on
    only electricity before the engine kicks on in 2012.

    Toyota, which already sells more hybrids than any other automaker, recently
    said it would introduce six new hybrid models in the next two years. The Prius
    models build on a well-established brand that has been the market leader in
    hybrids.

    Mr. Toyoda told the dealers that Toyota would try to be the world leader in
    building environmentally conscious vehicles and touted the company's
    cooperation with Tesla Motors Inc. Toyota is building a RAV4 electric car using
    Tesla battery technology, the people briefed by Toyota said.

    He also thanked the Toyota dealers for sticking by the company as they dealt
    with millions of repairs for recalled vehicles since last fall, due primarily
    to complaints about unintended acceleration, according to the people briefed by
    Toyota.

    Toyota executives also told dealers they were committed to reviving the
    struggling, youth-oriented Scion brand and were bringing a slate of new
    products, the people said.

    The new Scion models include a production version of its FT-86 concept car as
    well as the already-announced Scion iQ subcompact, the people said.


    Toyota is one of the few automakers to offer free maintenance on its
    vehicles. The incentive was launched in March as Toyota was seeking to regain
    the trust of American buyers.

    Toyota briefly stopped selling eight of its most popular models in February
    to fix a sticky accelerator pedal. Toyota also was in the midst of recalling
    millions of vehicles for slipping floor mats that could entrap accelerator
    pedals.

    -By Mike Ramsey, The Wall Street Journal; [email protected]

  3. #3
    This is the worst news I have ever heard about the FT-86.

    Way to go Toyota.

  4. #4
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    Do you guys believe this news? A Scion? I mean, that doesn't disqualify the car for potential purchase by me at all. What really irks me is that they're stating a price of $25,000 for the 2012 Scion FT-86. What happened to $21,000? If this is true, I fold.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Toyoriffic View Post
    Do you guys believe this news? A Scion? I mean, that doesn't disqualify the car for potential purchase by me at all. What really irks me is that they're stating a price of $25,000 for the 2012 Scion FT-86. What happened to $21,000? If this is true, I fold.
    I assure you its true, Toyota/Scion doesn't just convene all Scion/Toyota wigs across the states for nothing. I agree, Its nearly a deal breaker for me. The LAST thing I want is to be associated with Scion, this car is a staple for TOYOTA. Fucking sad...

    I'm hoping the Subaru is our savior. My source reported it would be in Euro markets only. However remember we have seen the Subaru mule in state side twice, once in Orange County, CA and recently near Death Valley.

  6. #6
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    What, is this some kind of Chinese torture or something? This news sucks big-time! If the 6-speed base Scion FT-86 for 2012 due out in Nov. of 2011 costs $25,000 I am out of the running for it. I'll just hang on to my 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer GTS and enjoy the heck out of it.

    AARRRGGGHHHHHH!!!!

    I wanted a FT-86, Toyota! Lower it...literally!

    The car is expected to be break into US shores at the NY Auto Show this April.

    WTF? We can forget about November of 2011 for a U.S. release date, then, too, huh?

  7. #7
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    The report also included that of a 2.5l Engine would make it to production. The current engine "marketed" with the Toyota FT-86 is only a 2.0 liter. The choice of the 2.5l is a good one. However they are also increasing the original entry level price range around $25,000 US.

    Are you sure they're not gonna offer the Scion FT-86 with both the 2.0L 4-cyl and the 2.5L 4-cyl, and the larger engine getting the $25,000 price? The 2.0L 4cyl Scion Ft-86 would get the lower entry-level 6-speed manual tranny price of only $20,000 then. Until I hear it from Toyota/Scion for sure one way or another this scenario remains open, right?
    Besides, Scion's don't go for $25,000 large, that's not really totally believable news to me.

    The Scion tC goes for around $18,995 for example.

    I really think Scion will sell a 6-speed FT-86 for $20,000, with the smaller 4-banger.

  8. #8
    Just debadge the scion and replace with toyota emblems. Either way your still buying a toyota. But im disappointed that the subaru is not arriving on American shores.

  9. #9
    Well this sucks. I hope that the 2.0 liter version is a 2.0'T at least. I will still hope that Subaru changes it's mind and brings it stateside. I mean public opinion has to account for something. I'm sure message boards across the web are lighting up with similar feelings.
    Team Scoobie Member

    Quote Originally Posted by modifiedMR View Post
    Naw, "bang for the buck" as in performance. I'd rather than and need a shot of penicillin.

  10. #10
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    I just can't get the Scion thought outta my head. I am not a hater on Scion, I test drove a 2006 Scion xA and enjoyed the ride. I woulda been happy with one of those. I also was infatuated with the Scion tC for a few years, joining Scionlife.com online clubs, etc.

    So the news that Toyota is still coming out with the design but it will be a Scion is fine with me. But raising the price to $25,000 is not going to work with me. If they put out the smaller 4-cyl I'm cool wid it, and charge closer to $20,000.

    But if this car is going to run a starting price of $25,000 I'm done with it. Period.

  11. #11

    2.5 l?

    Can anyone elaborate on what the implications are for the FR-S's power/torque picture with this news of a 2.5 l engine? I know nothing of Toyota engine offerings (other than the fact that they can work well in sports cars - see Lotus). I do know the Corolla XRS "features a 2.4 Litre Engine equipped with VVT-i, generating 158 Horsepower and 162 Pound-feet of Torque" - I've driven this and was none too impressed...

    BTW, sorry for the username - just could not resist in light of the recent news!

  12. #12
    The article was written "-By Mike Ramsey, The Wall Street Journal; [email protected]" Please don't believe other writers who isn't in car knowledgeable or car industry. Like other times, same WSJ people not same person, keep talking about LFA is going to be Toyota stating that value will be worth more, failed, Lexus is the one have already kept the same throughout the years(11years). Again, happen with GTR was going to be Infinite stated cause of the price MSRP and up against Acura NSX, failed GTR stay as Nissan. WSJ, like I said don't trust them, they are only in for currently marketing daily basis, not foresee in the future.

    I don't think it going to happen. There's few times in the beginning, Toyota have mentioned before, Celica is on few in the any of those Motorsports Magazines funny thing it was on Cars and Drivers as well. FT was promised to be RWD as stated by Toyota/Subaru. They both decided ad agreed to be own original companied as in Toyota/Subaru, they just haven't decide what model name for it, however, Celica will be as default.

    My 2cents thoughts:
    IF EVER they make it into Scion. For sure made by USA with partially Japan's parts. If not call FT86, Corolla, Celica, more likely call it tC. Marking price will be or should be the price as tC leveled. Scion are mainly economical and stay FWD, somewhere in Toyota's websites or Scion's introductory promising dialogue before models came out.

    Why didn't anyone here and other forums show this to TOYOTA, let them see and read us?! I'm assure they will keep their mind and mentioning to other Toyota's administrators.

    Toyota Supra '95 5Speed N/A TargaTop LemansBlue

  13. #13
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    I don't log on to toyobaru for 2 days and look what happens... WTF!
    West how did you let this happen! jk lol
    but for real, what a mad buzz kill!
    And if the Subaru bit is true as well, shit is gonna go down! I didn't wait this long for a car that ain't even comin to the states! This is ridiculous! I'm outraged!
    05' STi
    Team Scoobie Member

  14. #14
    Update added to original post.

    Body Style Changes: Yes, slightly more square.

    UPDATE: I had more time with my source and they explained this is Toyota's last ditch move to save the failing brand, Scion. Scion sells well in California, Texas, but not that well anywhere else. I was also told the body design will be slight changed, Toyota doesn't want the FT-86 to compete with the Lexus IS brand so they are making the design a bit more square. More bad news if you ask me.

    With all this said, I have some sliver of hope for the Subaru. I trust the Toyota information given more than I trust their report on what is planned about the Subaru variant. The news was direct from several of our inside Toyota contacts, not Subaru. Plus, remember we have seen the Subaru 216a aka "Toyobaru" 2x in America.

    In the end though, if the Subaru, Scion and possibly Toyota share the same platform and end up in different continents, it will make for interesting part swaps, etc.

  15. #15
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    compete with the Lexus IS?? that's dumb
    then Lexus should make it's own 135i competitor! :P
    05' STi
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  16. #16
    Toyota VS Toyota??? WTF?!?!

    Toyota Supra '95 5Speed N/A TargaTop LemansBlue

  17. #17
    Wow Toyota executives need to grow some balls and stop letting their wallets affect their decisions... if they just put out the car as is (of course water it down to reduce cost like the interior) then the car will sell just fine. keep it simple and keep it toyota. theyre gonna lose alot of buyers if they start altering things especially the shape!

  18. #18

    Thumbs down

    This is sad, I knew they would mess it up somehow. For $25000.00 it better have a turbo on it, which it won't. Hopefully the Subaru version pans out and they release it in North America and not making it ugly as sin like they do with most of the cars in their line-up (I own a Legacy Spec.B, one of the only models that I think isn't ugly as hell). Also I find it hard to believe that this car would poach sales of the Lexus IS, completely different classes. Speaking of the Lexus, they already ruined that car when they decided to only sell it with an Auto on the 3.5L and AWD versions.

  19. #19
    Also, I don't see an NA 2.5L packing much power. It'll have a hard time competing with other cars in it's new price range. The new "next gen" 2.5L coming from Subaru for the 2011 Forester pumps an amazing 170hp and 174 lb-ft of torque. I'm sure they could mess with it for more HP in a sports car application, but much more then 200hp is pushing it. Hopefully they keep the weight below 3000 lbs, because it's going to get spanked by the now cheaper V6 Mustang (305hp).

  20. #20
    Well for 25k it better have a turbo 2.5l engine. The WRX starts at 25k and that comes with AWD. I am sure if they raise the price that high then it will have the 265 hp turbo subaru engine from the WRX or else it will not be worth it at all.

  21. #21
    As many members have said before me, if this car isn't turbo charged, you can forget it. I'd be totally happy spending 25k on the 265whp turbo scion.

    It's funny that in my head I've been bouncing between between the ft-86 and the new 2011+ WRX. For a grand or two more I'd rather save my cash for a WRX premium. If they ruin the FT-86 by turning it into an under powered bland looking car, then the subaru is an easy choice for me. I've been driving slow NA cars for the last 7 years (09 si now, 03 sentra spec v before that, 92 GEO STORM before that!!)... I'm ready to hop into the driver's seat of something quick.

  22. #22
    My gosh this car is shaping up to be another 240sx. Attractive car with a sucky power plant in the us with a boosted counterpart in other parts of the world. The suby motor would become the new SR20.
    Team Scoobie Member

    Quote Originally Posted by modifiedMR View Post
    Naw, "bang for the buck" as in performance. I'd rather than and need a shot of penicillin.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by prozach626 View Post
    92 geo storm before that!!
    w00t w00t!
    05' STi
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  24. #24
    Earth to Scion, fix your crappy cars to save your brand, don't steal an iconic staple of an Toyota sports car.

    Please say the Subie will make it state side with RWD.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason View Post
    Please say the Subie will make it state side with RWD.
    YES!... minus the RWD part.
    05' STi
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  26. #26

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by DonKingKong View Post
    This is sad, I knew they would mess it up somehow. For $25000.00 it better have a turbo on it, which it won't. Hopefully the Subaru version pans out and they release it in North America and not making it ugly as sin like they do with most of the cars in their line-up (I own a Legacy Spec.B, one of the only models that I think isn't ugly as hell). Also I find it hard to believe that this car would poach sales of the Lexus IS, completely different classes. Speaking of the Lexus, they already ruined that car when they decided to only sell it with an Auto on the 3.5L and AWD versions.
    My thoughts exactly! The WRX is much more car for the money, at least based on what we know right now. Unless this car comes Turbo from the factory then 25k is just a plain rip on their customers. The Scion tC costs 19k MSRP 5-Spd, they should lower the MSRP for all Scions if the FT-86 needs to fit within that lineup. Such as 18k tC and 22k FT-86.

    My feelings from my source was that the current FT-86 styling was to close to the IS and so they are wanted to beat it with the ugly stick to make it fit within the Scion brand, and not compete with the IS. I could see it stealing sales of the IS 6-Spd, but even then if you have 40k$ to spend on a new Lexus you wont consider a Scion, a Toyota possibly. If it holds true to the 2.5L then its direct competition for the IS...

  28. #28
    Bahahahah, this is the most excellent image made by our pals at Jalopnik.com

    Its a 2011 Scion tC front end (headlights) on a FT-86... well done.

    PS: Dear Toyota/Scion, it looks like ass. Hands off current design.



    Source: Scion FR-S Is The New Toyota FT-86?

  29. #29
    God forbid toyota has a competent looking lower end car, aside from the IS.... People who are shopping for a 20k toyota probably aren't the same people shopping for a 40 grand lexus. My interest in this car depends almost entirely on two factors - Most importanty, will it come factory with a snail, second most importantly, how bad will the design be messed up.

    There is still hope, but not much.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cal View Post
    My gosh this car is shaping up to be another 240sx. Attractive car with a sucky power plant in the us with a boosted counterpart in other parts of the world. The suby motor would become the new SR20.

    I approve of this.

 

 

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